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View Full Version : GroBoto v3Beta-299o - Observations



Whoop
01-05-2011, 09:33 PM
Just a couple of observations (or three) while I remember them.

1] Selecting by group still won't select the whole group if the object clicked on in the group happens to be a boolean. You need to click on a non-boolean to select the whole group.

2] Exporting meshes. I am happily exporting by Groboto Groups, using the Separate Meshes button. Often I find I want to re-export just one of the objects. I'll recombine it later elsewhere. The logical thing is to hide everything else and export what is left.

I am getting an export error if I do this - is it because the rest of the scene is hidden? I can export the whole mess, but not one remaining visible object out of the mess.

The only way seems to be to delete the unwanted objects first; the remaining object will then export.

Which leads me to ask for a Delete Unclicked option somewhere please.

I suppose you might be able to add a button for Export by Selected under the OBJ Mesh Export options.

3] Working on dark sides of an object. I really like the way I can work with Silo, where the lights can be locked to the viewport, so rotating around an object ensures that it will be illuminated, showing the form well. I find it a pain to set up lights so I can see from front and back. I find myself working in the white outline mode a lot, which of course doesn't then give me the benefit of seeing the curvature well.

A simple lock lights to viewport button would be great. I guess this would be related to my wanting the reverse option with turntables, where the light revolves with the objects rather than the viewport.

I am still going to hassle for a view mode where I can see the orientation of the objects. Boris did a demo where he seemed to indicate it was trivial to add. I don't need a mesh preview of individual objects necessarily, just some indication of xyz - loops like in the booleans, an XYZ loop or something, so I can see how objects are changing as I rotate them. I guess that leads to point 4.

4] Snap rotate cloning. I noticed a few people early on had issues with creating double or multiple objects in the same place and there is no easier way of getting this accidentally than setting rotate to a fixed value, such as 45 degrees, holding down alt and dragging to turn. If you let go and didn't actually rotate far enough to move it, you now have two copies. If you did this on an axis where the object appears the same you won't know until you get issues later. You saw nothing happen, so you do the same thing again and now you have three copies in place.

Thus an internal software check to see whether an object actually moved, that then inhibits the clone if it didn't, would be good. If I could see that the object had actually turned, because Boris gave me the above mesh indication mode, I would be better informed.

As it is, I have to go to myself 'uh-oh, that didn't turn and I let go, I better go and delete that doppleganger before I do anything else.'

GroBoto
01-06-2011, 03:43 AM
Hi John,

Thanks, as usual, for the well-considered feedback.

A few quick answers( &/or thoughts -- wish I had all of the answers).


Right. That's a known bug... may also be a problem with other selection options like Select By Texture.
If you have a specific .gbr example, I would like to take a look. Generally speaking, this is something we do every day here while testing & debugging -- hiding parts of a scene and exporting. Two possibilities: It could just be a meshing bug -- sometimes hiding geometry exposes a problem that does not occur in the complete model. Or, it could be specific interaction between 'Separate Meshes' and your GroBoto Grouping. I tried, but could not recreate it here. And yes... 'Export Selected' is a needed option. Like everything in codeville, not as easy as it sounds.
You may have noticed a grayed-out 'Modeling Lights' item in the Scene Context Menu -- I'm full of good intentions and totally bereft of time... partly done, eventually it will be implemented.
Yes, this is an irritant. If I find response slow in a particular model I'll often just use the Object Context Menu's 'Duplicate in place' item instead (the duplicate geometry is selected after that operation)-- then follow with a normal snap-rotation. Something truly discreet -- like a duplicate/replicate Panel with numeric input for number of copies, and transforms -- would solve all such issues. As usual, I also see more elegant solutions -- but those require more thought & time. Delaying the clone until the snap-threshold was reached is an excellent idea, but unfortunately not compatible with our current systems... would require some wholly new code architecture. One way or another, we'll provide more options.



And Finally... I'm all in favor of more visual feedback (like the object orientation indicators you propose). With anything as inherently deep and multi-faceted as 3D modeling, it's the best way to keep the user out of trouble and grease the workflow. We will get to it when we can.

Best Wishes,
Darrel

Whoop
01-06-2011, 05:53 AM
If you have a specific .gbr example, I would like to take a look. Generally speaking, this is something we do every day here while testing & debugging -- hiding parts of a scene and exporting. Two possibilities: It could just be a meshing bug -- sometimes hiding geometry exposes a problem that does not occur in the complete model. Or, it could be specific interaction between 'Separate Meshes' and your GroBoto Grouping. I tried, but could not recreate it here.OK, here goes. I opened the file here, it did the same repeatable thing:

1] Preview the mesh. Export the meshed groups, all is well.

2] Hide everything except for the tail section. It previews but it won't export.

3] Delete everything except for the tail. It both previews and it exports.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5346257/groboto/beta_o/bot1.jpg

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5346257/groboto/beta_o/bot2.jpg

Click to download the bot. (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5346257/groboto/beta_o/industrobot1a.gbr)

I just tried this again, using my old G5 rather than the new iMac quad core, with the same repeatable mesh error results.

GroBoto
01-06-2011, 08:06 AM
Hi John,

Fantastic Model.

I was just able to reproduce the bug here (actually not difficult, just did not have the right setup the first time I tried).

Should be a simple fix -- will be in the next build (probably Saturday/Sunday).

Sorry I made you chase it down, 'tho glad it gave me a peek at this WIP.

Best Wishes,
Darrel